CMS's release of its Strategic Plan 2014 has created quite a response among educators, community leaders, and other key stakeholders. Perhaps, the most controversial piece includes the development of a pay for performance piece where teacher effectiveness is measured. CMAE needs to hear its members' concerns, questions, and issues regarding this proposal.
This blog is intended to allow for members to share their thoughts. We ask that all responses be professional, yet candid. Also, you may use wish to use an alias instead of your real name.
I think that the plan is scary -
ReplyDeletewill they take away National Board Pay? master's pay?
Will the superintendent and other administrative staff in the Central offices and Learning communities be evaluated on how well they respond to their clients? What goals will they have? Why is it the whole plan is based on teacher performance?
ReplyDeleteSince I as a teacher will be paid based on performance, does that mean then that students will be held to an even higher degree of accuntability and only be promoted to the next grade based on their performance instead of being handheld, mollycodled and socially advanced?
ReplyDeleteI would be interested in pay for performance for teachers under the following conditions:
1)Superintendant, Ass't (and all other) Superintendants, Regional Directors, Principals, etc. are also evaluated and by each and every person they supervise.
2)The new base pay scale starts at DOUBLE the current first year teacher scale
3) My doctorate (and other advanced degrees) and NBCT is part of the base pay BEFORE the "value" is added.
How many people are they willing to loose over this and how will they run a school system on a skeleton crew? I WILL LEAVE ALONG with many many others.
ReplyDeleteYet again, another way to tell teachers that they are second class citizens and the root of all the problems with CMS.
ReplyDeleteI worked extremely hard to get my master's degree and my national board certification not only to become a better teacher but to support my family the best way possible.
ReplyDeleteI see a huge exodus of highly qualified and effective teachers leaving because they can no longer afford to teach in CMS since they cannot predict their incomes from year to year.
How are special area teachers or elective teachers going to be paid? I am afraid our best and brightest who have given years to CMS will be leaving.
How on earth can they evaluate our performance in any other way than they already have? You know this plan wouldn't be enacted if it made them spend MORE money...
ReplyDeleteWill teachers at high performing schools and those at low performing schools be evaluated on this scale? How will this effect teachers who are not classroom teachers? How will special area teachers or special education teachers be evaluated? I also think this is scary. First they increase our insurance and decrease our benefits and now this.
ReplyDeleteI agree this plan is scary. My job is hard enough. My colleagues and I work really hard and we are committed to the students at the high poverty school where we work. Most days, I am at work from 6:30 in the morning until 5 or 6 at night. I then go home to do more work. Most would agree that it is more challenging to help certain groups of students grow academically that other groups. That is why 1/3 of the students in CMS are failing. This is especially true if the many at risk students are concentrated in one classroom or at one school. So will teacher pay for teachers at high poverty schools be in more jeopardy than schools where the challenge is not as great? Is Gorman willing to put his salary on the line if every student in CMS does not show more than a year's worth of growth? I am not saying that we do not need to do more to help our failing students, but threatening teachers' livelihood when the district and state has not provided teachers with excellent pay, health benefits, resources and working conditions is unacceptable.
ReplyDeleteDr. Gormam has not proven that his Freedom, Flexibility,and Accountability plan has been effective. Please point me to the accountability data. I say no new plan until the old plan shows its merit. The school board should stop this project before it "eats" into the budget,(which could be used to directly educate students. I would like to volunteer to
ReplyDeletebe on the panel to review this plan. It is ridiculous to think that degrees do not matter in a teacher's performance. Does he ever plan to have staff development with this plan? Can we count on the integrity of this program?Immediate legal measures should be put into place to grind this plan to a halt.
Where is the logic that says the amount of education you have in the field doesn't matter and neither does meeting high standards such as NBCT?
ReplyDeleteHow can we as educators make this claim and then turn around and tell students they must get an education!
In his speech Gorman refers to "a lot of studies " and "one study in CMS". These studies are not cited. Are we expected to just accept his conclusions without being able to see the studies on which the conclusions are based? Also, if the studies logically support his conclusions, what data shows that CMS staff development is more effective or superior to university training?
ReplyDeleteIn the normal workforce, an advanced only helps get you a job - not keep it... and it certainly doesn't increase your compensation. The days of MBA's getting higher salaries are over. Sure, some jobs require it as a prerequisite - but once you're in a role, all is fair. The competitive spirit against yourself in your performance is what is important. No more freebies to highly educated, but crappy teachers. It's about time.
ReplyDeleteIF this is done right, it will be a boon to CMS' high-quality teachers. Yes, if done wrong it will drive good teachers away.
ReplyDeleteThe key is for teachers themselves to come up with the benchmarks and support them, rather than have them imposed from on-high.
I suggest everyone start with this Malcolm Gladwell article on the topic: http://www.gladwell.com/2008/2008_12_15_a_teacher.html
How much longer are you teachers going to take this from "change agent" Gorman? Are you that scared for your jobs that you can not tell him he is so far out in left field that he needs a ticket to get back into the game? You know he thinks the only reason he can not make all his bonus points is because he does not have all the "perfect" teachers in the state teaching just for him.
ReplyDeleteThe only studies he is citing are those that say these kids are not advancing with certified teachers. He is not citing any studies that say what kind of teachers these kides are advancing with because there has been no one conclusive determination. The California study looked at why smaller classes were not working and low and behold, the answer was there were not enough qualified teachers. I am not sure why these students should be entitled at any special teachers. There are so many other children that could advance even more with much less effort.
I hope the public will start standing up and tell him to quit picking on the teachers. I intend to.
Gorman needs to be fired! He is slowly going to destroy CMS. We are already a laughing stock. Teachers that do the job because they "care" are only going to last so long! All that will be left soon will be a "bottom of the barrel" staff that won't strive to do better for themselves...just like the students they will be teaching!!
ReplyDeleteSo what about schools that have higher drop-out rates? Are those teachers treated fairly in this system?
ReplyDeleteHow do we prevent artificial inflation of grades just to meet the performance guidelines? I'm not saying it would happen, but if you're taking pay away from teachers and using this system, it *is* a danger.
Is the plan for teachers only or does it include administrators from Principals all the way up to Gorman?
Do we use this same system for teachers at alternative schools? How about for special needs teachers?
When the "details" come out, we will learn that the plan is a way to reduce teacher pay, or tempt teachers to go to lower performing schools. When the budgets need to be met, it will be easy to show that teachers are not "performing" and lower their pay.
ReplyDeleteIt certainly sounds like a few here are touting their "higher" degree as evidence of their superiority as a teacher. I remain neutral on whether that is true, and feel that your performance can prove or disprove the theory. To grandfather those already in the system - to a point - might be the fair way to do it, but I applaud the decision to do away with any system that only rewards based on a degree.
ReplyDeleteDid you peons even read the transcripts or listen to the interview? Dr. Gorman said it was going to START with him and the higher ups and work down from there, teachers being last.
ReplyDeleteBeing an engineer in the private working world, you are evaluated everyday by your superiors by the work product you produce (in your case, students). Bad product, you are not going to be working very long no matter what type of degree you have. Your pay increases are tied to your yearly evaluations (sometimes by people who aren't in your office or who don't even see you on a daily basis).
So quit crying and learn how to teach the children or find a different vocation.
As a parent who works in the private sector, it's amusing to see all the teachers whining about being held to a standard. Those who CAN do - those who CAN'T 'teach'. It's amusing to watch people spend 120k plus on a college degree to earn 40k a year.
ReplyDeleteIs there any way that we can tie families' child-based tax credits and social support benefits to how well their children perform in school? I think that is only fair.
ReplyDeleteAlso, how are we going to balance out the schools that have very challenging & high needs populations with the ones that don't? Are we going to bus kids from say, Thomasboro to Eastover so that teachers at both schools will have an equal chance to prove their teaching prowess?
How can he possibly measure teacher efficacy by objective standards? EOG/EOC tests? What about classes that do not have state tests? I'll be damned if my pay will be affected by parental support, which we all know is vital in student achievement. What will be done to make sure that every school, every class, has the tools for success? How does he plan to deal with overloaded classes? I have so many questions and I am sure there are no answers!
ReplyDeleteSo much for doing everything they asked us to do in order to be the best teachers possible for the benefit of the students. They wanted us to get Master degrees, and we did. They wanted us to get National certification, and we did. For our part, we wanted to max our skills, but we also wanted to provide for our families. A few extra thousand a year can make a big difference, given how close to the edge we operate our family finances. Well, now they want to change everything so they can save some money. If they cared about the students, they wouldn't pass them through the grades when many of them can't read, write, add or substract. Looks to me like only a complete fool would want to teach for CMS, and my daddy didn't raise no fool.
ReplyDeleteI am the the partner of a teacher, and I have learned so much from watching my partner. Teachers have one of the hardest and least respected jobs out there. While there are good teachers, bad teachers and excellent teachers, so much of a child's success is dependent on their home life. Are the parents involved? Do they require studying and help with homework? Was the child given "early literacy" (i.e., exposure to books and reading from an early age)? Do the parents support the teachers by holding their children accountable or do they blame the teacher when their child doesn't do his/her homework or study for his/her test? My partner is at school every day from about 730 to 500 and he works every night doing lesson plans, grading and responding to parent emails (frequently asking him for written assignments that were given to his students), plus he sometimes goes in early to give study sessions and he gives up weekend time to lead a club. Last week, he was disheartened by the performance of some of his students on a test (above average students who clearly didn't study) and elated by the performance of another (an intellectually challenged student who scored exceptionally high because he/she went to the study sessions, asked questions, got help). He works very hard to challenge and teach his students but he cannot control the variable of home. As someone who would readily embrace pay for performance in most professions, it scares me for CMS. As a parent, while I look to the school system to provide the platform for education, I believe it is my responsibility to give my children the building blocks they need so they will succeed at school and beyond.
ReplyDeleteI support the teachers and I fail to see how such a "pay for performance" system can ever be implemented. I have two children in CMS and feel their current teachers are dedicated and effective. Gorman seems to want to add to the system's difficulties. He and the overpaid administrators are the ones that should be paid based on performance. Maybe the school board should consider firing him!
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ReplyDeleteThe truth is, Dr. Gorman may have the best of intentions. Indeed many of us might benefit from a pay/performance system. I teach in a high school in which kids regularly come to us many grades below where they ought to be. If all we need to show is growth...
ReplyDeleteHOWEVER, for this system to get a chance there needs to be trust between Administration and Faculty and there is none of that. Whether it is the bonus game, changing growth to avoid paying bonuses, or the RIF, no one trusts Central Office to come up with something fair.
This will never pass.
It is unfortunate that such a negative light continues to be shone on CMS and it's employees. Wouldn't it be great if as much positive attention and effort was given to meeting the needs of our students and their families?
ReplyDeleteDear Mr.or Ms. Engineer,
ReplyDeleteI'm sure one or two of us so called peons helped you along at some point in your education career. We are not all inferior idiots, some of us do have some intelligence. Being so bold, feel free to volunteer in a classroom at a high poverty school and give teaching a shot. You wouldn't last a week. Would want to do your job with outdated technology and resources? Are you expected to use broken materials and create the 8th wonder of the world? Think before you judge and make such long winded comments.
A Peon
We're whining??? To those of you who are not teachers, how many of you have a variable in your career status or pay that you have absolutely no control over... namely societal issues. I'm talking about kids who are coming from homes where they are neglected or mistreated. Most kids couldn't care less about coming to school everyday. Many parents stick up for their kids before they will agree with a teacher. I have actually had parents say to me that what happens to their kid during the eight hours I have them is no concern of theirs. What about the attitude of our society in general which does NOT have an emphasis on education. We're more interested in sports and keeping up with the Joneses. I have worked hard for my degrees and am in the process of NCBT. If Gorman thinks that high level degrees don't matter, how does he think he got to where he is? Would the CMS board have considered him without all of his degrees? NOT!! What a joke. Gorman needs to realize that most teachers bust their butts on a daily basis. Most are at our school an average of 9-10 hours a day and then go home and work some more. Not to even mention the nasty attitudes MANY students bring from home and regulary assault teachers with. I have researched the situation in Florida and it didn't turn out well for teachers when he implemented the same thing. Hey, I have no ties to Charlotte, I'm GONE!
ReplyDeleteHere's a new one for everybody. Do you realize that Gorman has actually gotten permission to try this WITHOUT the CMS school board permission? From what I have heard, we won't even be considered NC State employees and even our base pay won't be based on the NC teacher scale. Everybody hold on to your hats and keep abreast of everything that is going on. He is deceptive enough to make things look like teachers 'approve' this without our approval because he is so good at twisting numbers around. When I started working for the system 15 years ago it was with the intent to be involved in a profession where I could make an impact on students' lives. Now most of us can hardly do our jobs because we're so worried about losing them or what our fate is down the road. Gorman's plans are vague. What is amazing is that it's with the blessing of the NC legislature. As teachers we need to make sure this doesn't get passed. Join your CTA or NCAE so that we can get the legal support we need to fight this.
ReplyDeleteThis "pay for performance" is completely unfair. Teachers have no choice in the selection of the children we teach - there is often bias and politics involved the way children are assigned to teachers. Each year one has to deal with whomever one gets. We know that parent involvement and help is crucial to a child's success - if I have children who do not have involved parents, where is that reflected in my pay? I have taught for many years, have many degrees and National Board certification. I have proven myself. It is disrespectful to me as a professional to worry about my livelihood like this. Surely our experience/degrees/level of pay cannot be disregarded and arbitrarily changed? Can this be at all legal? To whom do we write - the State Board of Eduction and the School Board? In good conscience, this cannot stand. The Alfie Kohn article, "The Folly of Merit Pay" must be mailed to all board members, Dr. Gorman and the Directors of each Learning Community - and to the decision makers in Raleigh. We must have our voices heard on this issue. It is vital. We all had our pay reduced in June to help the state budget - there's been no appreciation shown for that or assurance that it will ever be restored. We are public servants, making meager salaries, not corporate employees. We need protection and support. To whom can we turn for this?
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